Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

There are two systems that come to mind. Neither of which I knew too well, but they shared the same story- A host switches out, refuses to speak to anyone else, and through a lack of interaction they self-dissipate. I'm aware of a tulpa from a different system who managed to do this despite the fact he was a few years old. Even though the memories are there, the "soul" for lack of better terms is pretty much gone. This experience is also somewhat consistent with how Spirit self-dissipated. His memories are still accessible, but Spirit himself is dead. Part of the dissipation process involved something under the hood, and it didn't require psychedelics or confusion to do it. However, unlike the other examples, Spirit hung out with us as his sense of self unraveled. He grew weaker, but not to the point where he couldn't interact anymore (which I heard another system report with one of their headmates). If Spirit didn't want to spend time with us, the deconstruction probably could have occurred quietly in the unconscious mind. Identity is pretty flexible, it can unfortunately be as easy as not wanting to exist, like how wanting to exist or defining "I" can make you exist. For whatever reason, it seems almost near impossible to do this while in the switching front, possibly because the brain requires someone to control the body. I haven't heard of a case of the body being alone without an identity for too long, but I have heard of cases where a new "tulpa" is created to fill the void. (edited)

Perhaps due to my disinterest and strong attachment to my perspective, I have never achieved anything resembling complete dissociation. Usually when I use the term switching in my own context I am referring to a possessed/merged state where I am prone to realizing I am clearly in control intermittently. I wonder if such a thing would even be possible for one like myself. Academically speaking, of course. (edited)

11:33 PM

Or whether it requires achieving a more dissociative state by default.

11:35 PM

My interests, naturally, run completely in the opposite direction. I want to have more experiences, not less, or even the idea of less for my identity. But I wonder if it's possible for everyone, even if it were desirable. (edited)

To be completely honest, possession isn't my favorite. I switch with Ranger solely because he wants too. I don't think I have ever wanted Ranger to do something for me, but there is an upcoming case where Ranger wants to front for me because he thinks it would be easier/better. Switching out for the first few times felt like becoming a program in the mind. I realize I don't have the body anymore, I'm just a voice in Ranger's head. In this state, your form/sense of self become a lot more important because that's all you have to hold onto at that point. (edited)

Another thing that is curious for me is... control. I've touched on it before but unlike others I have never not been able to control my tulpas actions, even when they attempt to resist whereas the default for others seems to be presumed inability to control them once they are developed. I had considered that maybe Mika was ill-developed due to the large period of dissipation, even though he seemed to return with some strength. As things have progressed though, it's been many months. Coming close to another year will have passed in november or october? I remain utterly capable of overpowering either of these thoughtforms, even as they are capable of immediately causing physical sensation in my body to the point where if I am not resisting their attempt consciously I do have to be able to trust them not to. But they can never override my intent, like at all. I get a sensation of resistance when they try that I don't get from any other non-conscious thoughtform, but they still can't do it. And not due to us attempting to get them to succeed. (edited)

11:49 PM

Also: Said we couldn't do simulated pain before. Did break through that barrier. Imposed pain we can now do.

I think being switched-in can give you an upper hand in of itself. In our system, being switched-in means you get priority over controlling the body- end of story. When it comes to not switching related things though, I think it's easier to gatekeep memories/thoughts and use system member management tricks (i.e. suppressing a call trigger) when switched-in? I'm assuming so anyway, even though I'm better at it than Ranger is. With other systems, they claim that being switched-in doesn't affect that, so it could vary a lot from system to system. Ranger and I don't like the idea of doing a fight for control of the brain/body kind of thing. Doing such a thing would violate our switching trust on both sides. However, just from a completely hypothetical standpoint, I think it would be close. I definitely couldn't get rid of Ranger if I wanted to, hell I can't even force him to go inactive if he wants to be awake. I remember one time I was desperately trying to hide something from Ranger, I was using every ounce of energy and I couldn't let my guard down or relax just a little bit or Ranger would get access to it. I think the stand off lasted for a few minutes, and after that Ranger found out anyway. If I had an upper-hand, it was very slight. Right now, Ranger also dreams and randomly switches in accidentally after waking up even when it doesn't make sense for him to. Where Ranger and I speculated I would have the upper hand there, I think that's slowly becoming equal ground too. In this hypothetical match, I think it mostly boils down to luck and who gets the switching front first. We would be completely dysfunctional because if one of us lost, we would be able to render the fronter useless by never going away. (edited)

I can definitely still force them to become inactive/in stasis. Sidestepping thinking about them, even after I've lost focus and briefly called them up as it were, is something that I think will forever be ingrained in me from dissipating Mika. I am able to use symbolic barriers as a mechanism to set up a sense of severance and alone-ness from them. One cannot easily make oneself not think about something, but the high IQ and disturbing way to make it happen is to make you feel truly and profoundly alone. Achieving that feeling, alongside mindfulness of the corporeal world, is how I did it and continue to, if I want some time to myself for whatever reason. (edited)

Oh, I still naturally go inactive all the time. I'm not with Gray 24/7 or anything like that. Gray can't force me to go inactive. I have a trigger where if Gray wants me to go away and I don't like the reasoning, I'll stick around.

When you say trigger, do you mean a symbolic mechanism or something else? An ingrained instinct or thought?

Gray

To be completely honest, possession isn't my favorite. I switch with Ranger solely because he wants too. I don't think I have ever wanted Ranger to do something for me, but there is an upcoming case where Ranger wants to front for me because he thinks it would be easier/better. Switching out for the first few times felt like becoming a program in the mind. I realize I don't have the body anymore, I'm just a voice in Ranger's head. In this state, your form/sense of self become a lot more important because that's all you have to hold onto at that point. (edited)

that secont paragraph sounds like it comes from a horror story lol

A trigger is an association, I suspect it's classically trained. For example, when Gray sees cake, our brain has wired cake with the call to wake me up. As a result, I wake up. Our headmates have similar triggers (thinking about ducks wakes up Duck). In this case, the trigger is Gray thinking about pushing me away. If Gray doesn't want me around, that's associated with me waking up, so it defeats Gray's attempt to keep me at bay. The actual trigger is I wake up if Gray is uncomfortable or feels scared/insecure- and then once I'm awake, I try to talk to him to figure out what's going on. The hypothetical trigger is any attempt Gray would have at not thinking about me would immediately backfire.

Wouldn't the formation of such require Gray's consent and participation? Else it would be an instinct your body possesses but does not associate with their identity?

Hilo

that secont paragraph sounds like it comes from a horror story lol

Switching is a scary concept if you don't have trust established. Giving someone else the authority to control the body isn't something that should be handled lightly. Luckily, I had a long time to build trust with Ranger so when he was ready to switch, I was onboard with it.

hope you and gray get along

He wouldn't be a co-host if we didn't

alright

Zen

Wouldn't the formation of such require Gray's consent and participation? Else it would be an instinct your body possesses but does not associate with their identity?

Of the trigger? Not really. It doesn't matter if Gray is switched-in or out, me being awake or not is independent of who is controlling the body. I'm not sure what you mean by instinct?

I presume what you mean by classically trained is that it was essentially put into reflex? Wouldn't that mean they needed to repeatedly perform or at least presume that the action of not-thinking-about-you would trigger that response? Physical reflexes are something we definitely all share, but mental reflexes do seem to vary for us three. We respond, on the fly, to things in different ways. (edited)

12:23 AM

I'd presume at least for us that it would be impossible for someone else to train that for them. Unless I suppose someone parroted them, which is interesting to consider as a host.

I'm not sure if I'm following, maybe it will make things more clear if I break it down a bit- The ability to wake up seems to be a natural ability. Maybe this is what you meant by "instinct"- we didn't learn how to wake up, we just do it. Normally, when we are thought of, we wake up. Kind of like if you present food to a dog, the dog will drool. The trigger is the association to the wake up call- or any other seemingly unconscious or abstract process. Most of our triggers associate something unrelated with our wake up calls, but we also have triggers for switching and if we really wanted to, may be able to construct a trigger for memory recall or experiencing an emotion. In this case with Gray not wanting me around, the wake up call is the natural pre-existing ability I already have and it's not something Gray can control. Kind of like how you can't switch just cause, you need to either think about it or do some sort of ritual. The unrelated stimulus is what makes the trigger useful. Once the connection between a concept and my wake up call is made, the trigger is complete. I think with Pavlov's dog, the connection needed trial-error and exposure. I think we're pretty good at making connection just by associating the stimulus with the wake up call, but I think a level of exposure is required too. Once the connection is made, exposure to the stimulus automatically leads to my wake up call being activated. It happens almost instantly, and it's as difficult to suppress as suppressing a thought. = = =

12:37 AM

Triggers can be degraded. I'm not sure how classical de-conditioning works, but for our triggers it's basically activating the stimulus when it isn't necessary and/or attack the natural reaction part. For instance, we all have name triggers- if you think about our name, we wake up. We had a problem with Blue waking up every time I or Gray typed or said his name, and it got annoying. We were able to suppress the trigger by doing a combination of talking about Blue while he was around but not engaged, suppressing Blue's trigger via symbolism to keep him out or whatever else, and Blue himself being discouraged when we didn't want him around. Over time, Blue's name stopped immediately waking up Blue.

Interesting. I see, I presumed these were intentionally constructed. I wouldn't say I'm conscious of any particular specific triggers for my tulpas if they exist. They respond to things without my intent all the time, but I wouldn't say there's much of a pattern. Perhaps I should attempt to observe this more, but that might make a pattern emerge I suppose.

With regards to unintentional reponses from tulpas that I don't wish to indulge. I am very capable of shutting those down. Their ability to even respond that way seems to require me not to be in a state of hyperfocus. I have only ever been able to break hyperfocus up with my own training to remember what I want to do, rather than have them respond during it. But aside from that, I would say that the waking up process is not instant, and that I actually have reflexes that run directly counter to it. When it comes to unwanted responses when I'm not focused, and I have spent a significant time from erecting barriers and the effect has largely worn off, in those conditions I might feel the distinct sensation of their identity before communication and immediately shut it down by rejecting it like the forming of an intrusive thought. I have not done this in some time unlike the more suggestion based methods which are short-term and basically snap me out of being able to think about them for as long as I wish to focus on something else, because unlike those this is directly squelching them and that's obviously rarely my intent. But I wouldn't call it a difficult part of learning dissipation so I'm probably still capable of it. (edited)

Perhaps I should attempt to observe this more, but that might make a pattern emerge I suppose.

I wouldn't be surprised if awareness helps form the association. I like having triggers, this is my way of waking up on my own without having to put energy into trying to keep myself around. I have so many now that I can wake up, check in, and then go inactive if I'm content with what's going on. However, I also have a few stupid triggers because of this. Gray tried to use triggers to help me stay awake while he watched a movie, and it didn't work. However, as a side affect, whenever there was a sad part of the movie, Gray would think of me and I would wake up. I both like and hate this trigger.

Their ability to even respond that way seems to require me not to be in a state of hyperfocus. I have only ever been able to break hyperfocus up with my own training to remember what I want to do, rather than have them respond during it.

When Gray is hyperfocused on his stuff, most of my triggers don't apply. However, we could create a trigger for me to wake up when Gray is hyperfocued on something specific, but that would drive Gary insane. The less irritating approach would be to associate something really specific so it isn't generalized to the entire topic but an obscure part of it. For instance, if Gray is coding and I am triggered by abstract classes or something like that.

But I wouldn't call it a difficult part of learning dissipation so I'm probably still capable of it.

Dissipation, intrusive thought management, and trigger degeneration all overlap and sometimes go hand in hand. Dissipation I would argue is harder because grief is usually attached, where the other two is just the basics.

I don't know, I always think it's weird when someone says they think their system or host might not be able to do something.

Are we the only ones who like blend through switches?

Like if the new person is present we just switch and keep doing what the body was doing but it's like a gradient shift over to the new headmate sometimes. It feels like all we need is a little patience and that's it.

I know no other way, and I am not opposed to it. It seems to get exhausting after a time, though.

Exhausting? Like having to do it that way every time? Cause on the individual switching, it gets easier the longer time goes on until like just, I'm in front and that's it and it doesn't take anything to keep it.

It's not the technique or anything. It's just after time it seems inevitable that our mind returns to being me, or perhaps, being nothing at all. I have been considering lately that hyperfocus might be less associated with me and more associated with nothing - just purely present action. In many ways, it is ironically, quite Zen.

1

9:56 PM

And then I need to reground myself. After time the effort becomes annoying.

Oh, I can see that. I mean there's some bodyOS stuff that can get kinda funky with us. Usually just if certain people are around, but hyperfocus kinda makes it easier for us to keep front, for us

I would say that's true to a degree. I find that as long as the thing I'm focusing on isn't all consuming, and I genuinely want to do it quite a lot from one of our perspectives, then it works. The problem is that passion is not a constant for us, though shared time is.

Are we the only ones who like blend through switches?

I'm responding to this out of context I think, if I'm missing something let me know. We probably can switch like this, but we don't want too. Our fear is if we associate switching with moving around in the front, then we would lose possession and risk obtaining non-consensual switching. We try to enforce one experience or the other by calling it possession/switching even if it's ambiguous. We rarely blend in-system now, everything is labeled enough that it's pretty easy to know what came from who. Our headmates may blend, especially if their sense of self isn't stable.

Exhausting? Like having to do it that way every time?

Our switching ritual is multiple steps and we don't always feel up for that, but it's not exhausting. I think I would be exhausted by being switched-in for a week, not because I'm struggling with the front but because I have nothing I want to do and I'm starting to struggle with my depression again. I don't really want to switch in for a week, that's too long for me.

Oh, I can see that. I mean there's some bodyOS stuff that can get kinda funky with us.

Switching in for my class was one thing, switching in for my job blew out of the water what I thought my switching was like. Since my job involved a lot of talking and repetitive habits, it became clear we do in fact have an autopilot. The hilarious thing is I was overly anxious about my autopilot, and I would exhaust myself fighting it but not switch out. Once I learned how to accept it, things got easier and I became more comfortable with switching in general. The autopilot felt like Gray, and that bashed my confidence. Learning that it wasn't Gray and not something I should fight was huge. (edited)

Yeah like Lily (and Vixie sometimes I think) are making sure to kind of separate themselves from that autopilot feeling I think, and that definitely makes it easier to not think that it is them.

*Oh, as a side note- I took the term "body OS" from the Bear system, but then I realized I didn't understand it and I didn't like the idea of using their term. I felt I didn't need a term for the concept until I started working, so I switched to using the term "autopilot". I just wanted to point this out

11:04 PM

Even though I get what you're saying, I feel like my goal isn't necessarily to separate myself from it, but to associate with it to an extent. It's part of the body, but I influence it by installing my behaviors and habits. I think it's important to understand its not a person or your host, but I found letting myself not pay attention too much to what's me and what isn't when my autopilot is active helped. I feel like my autopilot is more like a mode than a separate entity- its purpose is to make fronting more efficient and make it easier for me to multitask and I can invest more thought into problems or questions I don't know the answer to. The mindless "Have a good one!" and even mindsets I have about working while speaking are all part of it. (edited)

Sometimes I think the autopilot gives me chances to think more about myself, like "do I really think that?", "Is that really how I wanted to act?"

could anybody tell me if there's a similarity between tulpas who are not too new? about a few months old, more specifically. i mean their behaviour. well not really their behaviour, more of so if they have the same emotions, and if they can develop separate memories somehow.

I sense you may not be giving us the full story. But to indulge you. There can a level of overlap between identities in a system, or there can be separation. It's a spectrum. Separations in memory are likely to require different beliefs and I don't think they can get super strong without hypnosis, but they can definitely happen. With behaviour, we definitely all experience some blendiness from time to time. We can experience multiple emotions at once but it tends to be rare and odd. Very jarring when it happens.

Zen

I sense you may not be giving us the full story. But to indulge you. There can a level of overlap between identities in a system, or there can be separation. It's a spectrum. Separations in memory are likely to require different beliefs and I don't think they can get super strong without hypnosis, but they can definitely happen. With behaviour, we definitely all experience some blendiness from time to time. We can experience multiple emotions at once but it tends to be rare and odd. Very jarring when it happens.

i see, it's just that coming back to the tulpa community has told me more about how hosts and tulpas feel, and even when you say experiencing multiple emotions at once, that's what i mean. i don't think i/my tulpas have felt that, which is why i'm asking about this as a start

6:48 PM

in other words, i don't feel many disconnections from my tulpas, most of the ones which do don't feel too strong, so i'm trying to figure out advice for creating more disconnection

Hi Im a half-baked tulpa who also feels little to no disconnection from my host. We figured out that it wasnt worth "forcing" ;P the issue in our case. Your mileage may vary (edited)

Aww don't be that way. You're fully baked. Especially because of the drugs=D.

Lmao fair enough

Unfastened Belts

Hi Im a half-baked tulpa who also feels little to no disconnection from my host. We figured out that it wasnt worth "forcing" ;P the issue in our case. Your mileage may vary (edited)

So ur a fully developed tulpa or

Not really

8:20 PM

That was the original intention but we got lazy about it

8:21 PM

Btw that wolf .gif is fucking badass

8:21 PM

From Mononoke right?

Indeed

Wait im confused

8:22 PM

U said something aboit being baked

8:22 PM

THAT means high?

My top 3 movies of all time (not really in any order) Water Lilies Princess Mononoke Inherent Vice

?

Baked usually means high, but for once that wasnt my intended meaning in that case lol (edited)

8:23 PM

Half-baked as in, not fully finished

Indeed, I was being facetious.

I did take a hit that was bigger than I anticipated this morning lol

How r u fronting then watt

I don't find that it's harder to switch when on various substances, personally.

Im never not fronting, hence half-baked tulpa. My host and I never exist at the same time, we just take turns. Really its just a matter of which name/gender identity we're using

Time just disrupts the effect for me.

Unfastened Belts

Im never not fronting, hence half-baked tulpa. My host and I never exist at the same time, we just take turns. Really its just a matter of which name/gender identity we're using

I'm confused

At any given time, I'm either Philipp or Marissa. There's no second identity "in the back"

8:27 PM

More often than not, really we're not even either one, just a blend (edited)

Wait noneones fronting?

Look the simplest way I can say it is that I use two names, depending how girly I feel. Thats more or less it

8:30 PM

As Marissa, I also have a girl mindform

Is this something I could do even tho my tulpa isijt rly vocal

Do what? haha

Get her to talk?

I mean sure, give it a try haha

Like as in type as herself here hm

Thats pretty much how I started

8:32 PM

But yeah I mean disclaimer, in our case that did not lead to a fully developped, separate tulpa haha

Unfastened Belts

But yeah I mean disclaimer, in our case that did not lead to a fully developped, separate tulpa haha

What happened then

Hmmm let me come up with a twentieth different way of saying it

In order to make my second tulpa I wrote about them for three or so months. Just non-stop. It was extremely fun. All I had to do at that point was to simply tell them what they really were and ask them if they wanted to join me in reality or remain a character.

8:34 PM

There's definitely not only one way to make one.

It led to me using the name Marissa (and having a girl form) in girl contexts, while using my birth name in boy contexts

Unfastened Belts

Hmmm let me come up with a twentieth different way of saying it

So you basically act like ur talking as ur tulpa or

Even then we use different names sometimes. Philipp also goes by Shake in a Gorillaz fans context, and I go by Sarah in a D/s context :p

poochball

So you basically act like ur talking as ur tulpa or

More or less, although its not really acting, just feeling, well, more girly in certain contexts

8:36 PM

Not that I could really strongly define it. Just moving/feeling a bit more feminine and imagining my girl form

Im dumb and autistic so could u break it down

Even further?

8:37 PM

XP

Yw

Out of curiosity Marissa do you perceive yourself as a median of one being, rather than a traditionally separate tulpa? I'm not sure I've asked.

I'm confused and its upsetting me knowing im.this dumb

I really cant, its not a feeling that can be easily put into words

8:38 PM

Yes Zen, we've been using the term median ever since we came across it, but it makes @JGC mad

8:39 PM

Youre not dumb poochball! I just cant put it into words any better than I already have

poochball

I'm confused and its upsetting me knowing im.this dumb

The both of them basically developed a second identity for them, rather than a new identity. That created identity is basically their feminine self if I gather rightly? Does that help at all?

I am dumb i struggle understanding things with txt

One other way Ive said it before is that we feel like 1.5 identities at most

I dont understand